TL;DR
PV system works, it contributes to lower electricity bills, it lowers greenouse gases production, it contributes to energy independency and shows the middle finger to the Hormuz strait and all involved. But it intruduces additional thinking & tinkering. Overall, our home runs on 90% low-carbon electricity (combined PV-grid).
(I’m aware it also contributes to issues related to rare materials extraction, but that’s not the topic of this post)
(I’m also aware I’m writing this from the privileged position. A (too big) amount of people can’t afford PV)
Some data
Setup
- PV: 12,7 kWp
- Inverter: 12kW
- Battery: 20 kWh
- Export limit: 1,5 kW
- Electricity is used for everything: heating, cooling, cooking, (and for several months now, driving).
- Individual home, 60yrs old, good insulation, a bunch of people and pets.
- No net metering, but monthly calculation. The grid operator buys excess electricity for about 1/2 of the import price.
... Show more...TL;DR
PV system works, it contributes to lower electricity bills, it lowers greenouse gases production, it contributes to energy independency and shows the middle finger to the Hormuz strait and all involved. But it intruduces additional thinking & tinkering. Overall, our home runs on 90% low-carbon electricity (combined PV-grid).
(I’m aware it also contributes to issues related to rare materials extraction, but that’s not the topic of this post)
(I’m also aware I’m writing this from the privileged position. A (too big) amount of people can’t afford PV)
Some data
Setup
- PV: 12,7 kWp
- Inverter: 12kW
- Battery: 20 kWh
- Export limit: 1,5 kW
- Electricity is used for everything: heating, cooling, cooking, (and for several months now, driving).
- Individual home, 60yrs old, good insulation, a bunch of people and pets.
- No net metering, but monthly calculation. The grid operator buys excess electricity for about 1/2 of the import price.
Production/consumption
- Timeframe: 1. 7. 2025 – 1. 7. 2026
- Total solar production: ~10 600 kWh
- Total grid import: ~4300 kWh
- Total grid export: ~1600 kWh
- Total house consumption: ~13 300 kWh

Energy production and consumption by months
Legend:
- Yellow: consumed solar
- Cyan: consumed battery
- Blue: grid import
- Pink: battery charge
- Magenta: grid export
Or, summarized:

Biggest consumption (individual device): heatpump, 4300 kWh (interestingly, almost identical consumption as total yearly grid import).
Some balances:

Costs:
Total costs of electricity:
- 2024-2025 (without PV): 1900€
- 2025-2026 (with PV): 770€ (this also includes 3 months of e-driving, that would cost ~500€ in diesel).
That is 1130€ / less costs per year.
Pessimistic ROI prediction(driving excluded) would be approx 10 yrs.
If I add also reduced cost for driving (charging mostly with excess solar), then ROI will be 5 yrs.
Prices of electricity will probably rise, therefore ROI will be further decreased.
Cooling
Cooling is basically ‘free’. ACs consumed 100 kWh/month (Jun.), ran when was sunny and directly consumed PV electricity. I’m writing this because of all public debates, if AC should be used at all. I think ACs are the best case to use in combination with PV (if there is excess of solar energy).
Heating
Heating is most ‘problematic’ energy consumer. It consumes most electricity in Nov.-March, when the PV production is low and grid import is needed. Nevertheless, PV lowered our heatpump consumption approx. by half (in comparison with prev. year).
What would further contribute to electricity cost reduction:
Small amount of electricity that was exported to grid was used to lower electricity bills in summer months. 5 kW export limit would already be great – it would help to reduce bills also in autamn and spring months (when there is still enough PV production, but it is capped). But the grid is old and the operater will not upgrade it in next 10 years.
I’m out of ideas what else could I do to lower the energy costs. I already optimized the consumption and improved losses (insulation).
What is good:
- Partial energy independency (67% in total). Nevertheless, in case of emergency, we could be 100% independent of grid (UPS mode), but the house would probably be a bit chilly in winter.
- Family members became aware of the energy consumption – now they consider the weather, SoC of battery, etc. before turning on big consumers (washing, dishes etc.)
What is challenging:
- More thinking:
- Before PV, I never spend a single thought about electricity. I turned it on and never asked myself if it makes sense.
- Additional learning:
- I had to learn a bunch of new concepts related to PV (zero export, )
- New Home Assistant integrations, entities, calculations, automations
- Dealing with new kind of issues:
- Buggy ev-charger firmware in solar only mode required I had to adjust some parameters on inverter to smooth charging power (dealer and producer are slow with updates).
- Grounding issues of the panels caused some main electricity meter trips and disconnects. It took a few days to figure it out.
- Additional insurance costs for the equipment.
- Complexity of the whole setup (There is absolutely no need to tinker with PV system if you don’t want to. But I have to. You know, some people just must know what all these knobs and parameters do.)
- New kind of background fears:
- What if all this equipment fails? What if it caches fire? What if… (I know a lot of these fears are ungrounded. For example, my previous pellet stove had a much bigger chance to catch fire. It failed every few days, I had to constantly tinker with it. Every year, there are at least 10 chimney fires in my muncipality. But anyways, new junk, new fears, I can’t do much about it, I’m overthinker. Nobody taught us about these things. Our parents only knew how to chop wood and make a fire. )
Erik Jonker
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •Jesper Lund
in reply to Erik Jonker • • •@ErikJonker
First, these solutions have technical and legal requirements that will create a digital exclusion problem for some people. For example, the EU age verification app requires a smartphone and some ID documentation to enroll.
Second, the anonymous age verification methods are really easy to circumvent. With the EU app, a QR code must be scanned to do the age check, but it is impossible to check whether this is done by the actual user or someome else.
@_elena @eff
Erik Jonker
in reply to Jesper Lund • • •Hendrik 🎸🤘🎵
in reply to Erik Jonker • • •always tired
in reply to Erik Jonker • • •And it still gives them a lever to exclude more and more people.
Elena Rossini 🌈
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •For the record, I am positively fuming over the new #AgeVerification laws being introduced in France.
How convenient that this way Big Tech behemoths like Meta, X and TikTok won't have to change a thing. (Don't get me started about Grok, which should have been banned MONTHS ago).
AGE isn't the problem. It's the TOXIC, PREDATORY, EXTRACTIVE nature of these platforms that is the real issue.
They are getting away scot-free. I hate it. All I can do is speak up with those around me 🫤
Ærion
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •monkee
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •bioactive
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •Wolkensteine 🏳️🌈
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •The best argument in my opinion to get people on board that aren't tech savvy is to show them that this doesn't even work. Because Australia has shown it doesn't.
If a kid has not to worry about harsh consequences and breaking rules is so easy they will certainly do it.
Also I totally agree with you, if Social Media is so dangerous, why not protect all from it by regulating dark patterns, manipulative design and other such things?
Australia: The "cool kids" ignore social media ban, many return
Martin Holland (heise online)Aaaah! lex 👻
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •agreed.
It's like showing the dust under the carpet and saying that the house is now cleaner.
And I foresee even worse with ChatControl. Von Der Leyen is a joke
juliette
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •Laura
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •sknob
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to sknob • • •@sknob Just dropping this here from *checks the calendar* seven years ago:
ar.al/2019/11/29/the-future-of…
They know exactly what they’re doing. They were told it to their faces.
The Future of Internet Regulation at the European Parliament
Aral Balkansknob
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Great speech. The surveillance part of surveillance capitalism is clearly hard to resist for governments 😭
Nicovel0 🍉
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •☀️Solgubben
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •Also, even if these bans worked, then they'd pull the carpet under the feet of a generation that grew up with them, and know nothing else.
To me the whole mainstream media discourse around this has been quite obvious. It's about doing *something*, but be darn sure it only impacts young people because they are not allowed to vote, and have no financial power. Don't change anything that'd inconvenience the adults, or the profit hoarding owning structures.
DoomBananas 🇳🇴
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •s1m0n4
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •I am against identity checks too and I disapprove of this point of the French law recently adopted.
However reducing the matter to main SM, even if they're extremely toxic and dangerous, is looking at the tip of the iceberg.
Between 1999-2022 teens endurance has dropped 18% in 🇫🇷.
univ-spn.fr/enquete-aupres-de-…
Half of 11 y/o students is unable to run more than 5 min.
franceinfo.fr/societe/enfance-…
An increasing number of studies also shows a cognitive debt associated to the use of AI chats.
/1
Enquête auprès de 2 400 professeurs d’EPS : « Nos élèves manquent de souffle et de force » - Université Sorbonne Paris Nord
Léa Ferbos (Université Sorbonne Paris Nord)jali 🌈
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •Rahaf Jomah
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •Em
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •stand a little out of my sun 🍉
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •Mark
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •Mostly because the age verification AI magic (and data collection) has been left upto big tech to implement, who also have no incentive to ensure their methods (and when that check happens) are particularly effective.
I read all this as being more of another haphazard and bumbling way of attacking the political influence of American tech companies.
Marcos Dione
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •> France, I was expecting more from you
Unluckily #France is getting more and more right wing, specially since the government (supposedly centrist) is OK'ing everything they bring up:
* crypto backdoors
* presumption of self defense for police brutality
* ID checks in websites
* deregulation of pesticides
I can keep going...
@eff
lieven
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •Stoneface Vimes
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •Gyula R. | Mindful Photography📷✨
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •How about protecting democracy, including children, by banning Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Twitter, and TikTok in the EU?!
Those toxic, unethical for-profit social networks keep funding the white supremacist BS in the US, Europe, and beyond; they allow the spreading of fascist propaganda and wild conspiracy theories and also expose kids to harmful content. Moreover, they have become tools of mass surveillance in fascist hands to silence and punish dissent.
Kévin ⏚
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •France by Macron isn't the France you'd expect and his party (including those in that orbit) is all about stealing ideas from Le Pen's party.
The law still has to pass the Conseil Constitutionnelle before it can be implemented which is still an opportunity for it to be shot down
mamot.fr/@LaQuadrature/1169646…
La Quadrature du Net (@LaQuadrature@mamot.fr)
La Quadrature du Net (Mamot - Le Mastodon de La Quadrature du Net)RejZoR
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •It's wild how quickly everyone just fucking drops everything when "think of the children" argument is involved.
I fear how restricted internet will become when I'll refuse to "verify" my identity online. Because the whole thing stinks of speech control and how people think and has very little to do with safety of children. There is many ways to do that and none of them picked those options or methods.
lieven
Unknown parent • • •Conny Nasch
Unknown parent • • •Ivan G.
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •I'm becoming very pessimistic, and in the future a VPN will be necessary (before it will become illegal)
♾️
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •Ivan G.
Unknown parent • • •Or the other argument is: "if you have nothing to hide".
Main problem is it started with porn, now with social media (tbh if facebook instagram and tiktok will disappear i'll be happy, but that's not the issue), then what's next?
And I wonder: will it be available on every platform, or only android and iphone or only a specific browser (by google)?
Ryek Darkener
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •I’m out of feasible ideas.
Richard Quinn
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •@eff
Lien Rag
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •romli
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •your post reads like Europe, and especially France, are the bad guys for spying on people accessing social media.
The bad guys are the big tech platforms they're trying to restrict. And big tech already spies on you way more than this gov measure will. You think big tech don't have a good idea of the age of users already? Or a full profile of their habits? Big tech didnt push for this. People and parents did .
This needs to be framed as a reason not to use big tech. Not a reason to divide democracies by fostering the idea that it is 'Europe' that is spying on people rather than big tech
Murdoc Addams 🧛🏻 🇨🇦
in reply to Ivan G. • • •@dreamos82
In case it's helpful to anyone reading this thread, there are some quick and easy resources about privacy concerns and even the "nothing to hide" argument here: techne-system.neocities.org/pr…
There's also a lesson on Media Literacy in the Critical Thinking topic.
8 Technology & Society I :: Techne
Techneeiskjchs
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •eiskjchs
in reply to eiskjchs • • •xenia, the fediverse eepy kitty :tranarchy_punk_nonbinary_wartime: :yellow:
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •it's not just age verification. it's a total war on privacy and most people don't give a fuck at all.
for example, in greece, there was a massive wiretapping scandal caused by the government (the prime minister himself has been managing the state's intelligence agency) who was using spyware to spy on journalists, politicians and potentially thousands of citizens for "national security" reasons.
except from very few people who spoke out from the very beginning when people started finding out that they were under surveillance, nobody gave a fuck until the leader of an opposition party and other politicians in the government were found out to be under surveillance as well.
a few years have passed i doubt anyone still gives a fuck, except from the people who were against it from the very beginning. and the same government is still running the damn country, without any serious repercussions.
i don't think shouting on deaf ears would be a constructive use of my time.
also, if you think the european union is democratic, i laugh hard at this, because the euro
... Show more...it's not just age verification. it's a total war on privacy and most people don't give a fuck at all.
for example, in greece, there was a massive wiretapping scandal caused by the government (the prime minister himself has been managing the state's intelligence agency) who was using spyware to spy on journalists, politicians and potentially thousands of citizens for "national security" reasons.
except from very few people who spoke out from the very beginning when people started finding out that they were under surveillance, nobody gave a fuck until the leader of an opposition party and other politicians in the government were found out to be under surveillance as well.
a few years have passed i doubt anyone still gives a fuck, except from the people who were against it from the very beginning. and the same government is still running the damn country, without any serious repercussions.
i don't think shouting on deaf ears would be a constructive use of my time.
also, if you think the european union is democratic, i laugh hard at this, because the european parliament is merely a democratic veneer.
Melissa
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •Spot on. I refuse to play.
Either I can use a website without giving my ID to a company I don't know or trust, or I simply don't ever use that website.
Since Elon ruined Twitter I've struggled to find my kind of people anyway.
paul
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •This dangerous illusion makes children weak and vulnerable.
Marija_
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •François Lemaire 🏴☠️
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •@eff
Tagomago
Unknown parent • • •@murdoc Also, we should not overlook the exponential value of the aggregate (not just individual data) in terms of surveillance and control. Maybe you’re OK with it, but the society as a whole is affected, and the systems and services you use will suffer.
Anyway, people who argue against this actually are blindly saying “I just want to use this app, let me alone”.
Mattiz6276
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •David Guillot
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •> France, I was expecting more from you
The man who runs the French Republic is not representing the French people anymore for a while now.
He nominates Prime Ministers who cannot agree with the coalition that won the legislative elections, ending up finding deals with the far right.
He makes decisions the competent Ministers disagree with, and forces them through Parliament.
We sign petitions (on the official Parliament petition platform), they ignore them, against the rules.
And the mainstream media, being held by personal friends of his, find nothing to say about it.
Don't expect anything from us until the next violent revolution.
nini
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •eiskjchs
Unknown parent • • •Patrys
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •DecentraliseEverything
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •HumanBeing
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •Peter Lord
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • •Elena Rossini 🌈 likes this.
Theriac
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •It's the matrix except it's a bunch of psychopaths not computers. It's feudalism 2.0.
wing_of_eternity
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈 • • •Murdoc Addams 🧛🏻 🇨🇦
Unknown parent • • •Aral Balkan
Unknown parent • • •